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Post by judgeroybean on Jan 21, 2011 6:01:24 GMT -5
Has anyone got any pics of a cartridge belt that would have been used for the .45-70 , civilian use or would ex army belts been available to have been used.
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brass
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Post by brass on Jan 21, 2011 13:17:50 GMT -5
Greetings Judge hope you've been well, I like seeing your posts on UK board and here.
Regarding your question, my recommendation would be your acquiring a great book I believe would be a much used reference in your library: American Military and Naval Belts: 1812-1902 by R. Stephen Dorsey. Dorsey has a section in this book and some excellent photos germaine to your question that would get you going in the right direction. Granted, his photographic references are military in nature but his description of the evolution of military looped/thimble belts and the connection to civilian leathers of the time is a most excellent narrative and something that would be helpful to you. This isn't, perhaps, the 100% the answer and solution to what you were looking for but hopefully can help. Of course the other book of choice for civilian looped belts (though not necessarily specific to .45-70 cartridges) would be Packing Iron: Gunleather of the Frontier West.
Of interest, though not specifically related to the looped belt reference you're looking for: I checked my 1889 Bannerman catalog to see if looped leather or woven Mills belts might have been available for sale as government surplus and came up short. However, I did find an interesting reference of a russet leather belt with nickled belt plate (which is not listed as military issue) being sold as a set with a "U.S. wool-lined Cartridge Pouch" (no mention of model or type though the illustration next to the blurb is an 1870s Dyer variant) being sold as a "...very neat and light set for sportsmen" (page 13). This is a nice, albeit late era, and rare reference to military surplus specifically being sold for use by civilians. Gotta love that.
Not sure if any of the above is helpful but I can always hope.
Brass
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Post by judgeroybean on Jan 21, 2011 15:13:49 GMT -5
Hi Brass hope you are keeping well also. I have both of those books you recommended , I find any thing by you and James very interesting and informative. I am trying to get my buffalo hunter persona together and trying to do it right so with help from all you guys I should get it somewhere near the mark, with any luck.
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brass
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Post by brass on Jan 21, 2011 15:56:47 GMT -5
Judge - Well then mon bon ami, I'm out of ideas. Drat.
Have you thought about making/altering/otherwise obtaining an early era military thimblebelt as shown in the Dorsey book? I think that would be a mighty fine addition to your collection. The kicker in your search is to find documentation specifically for the .45-70 and related culture, which to me leans heavily toward the military for obvious reasons.
Let's see what the other fellows here come up with, I'm looking forward to seeing what posts hit on this subject too.
Brass
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Post by buckskin billy on Jan 21, 2011 17:51:11 GMT -5
i do not have these books(yet) what does the thimble belt look like?
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Boot
New Member
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Post by Boot on Jan 23, 2011 11:15:29 GMT -5
Thimble belt is just an early term for a cartridge belt, some may of had the bottom of the loop sewn as well, which makes more sense of the term. Other terms used were "Fair Weather Cristian" and "Scouting" belts, remember cartridge belts were a new thing then as were the cartridges themselves.
Boot.
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Post by SGM PANXXXX on Oct 18, 2016 19:06:25 GMT -5
Don't know how many know this..but -- many "COWBOYS" -- the Ranchers - the Cattle Herders....all the folks in the Indian WAR days...they used a pistol belt -- if the cartridge loops were for the .45 Colt .. they used loops in an area chosen by them - to insert their 45/70 Cartridges, The MILLS ARMY Belts were used -- but were a pain to use...so , the "cowboys" dumped them for their pistol belts.. If you have access to some old frontier photos of Cowboys....settlers....or in some old books on the settling of the West....have a peek at their belts...you will notice -- some pistol belts have the bullets hanging out the bottom of the loops pretty far -- they are the 47/70 cartridges -- and -----later on , you would find 30/40 cartridges as well.... Hope this opens your eyes..... SERGEANT MAJOR - US ARMY - retired
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